Closed Captions

A discussion of a bicentennial art installation featuring provocative roadside signs along Missouri highways. Speakers explore themes including who discovers whom, the meaning of wilderness versus inhabited land, how history is recorded through oral and written traditions, and Native American perspectives on the Lewis and Clark expedition. The conversation emphasizes Native American agency, cultural stewardship, and the importance of Indigenous voices in interpreting regional history.

Transcript

0:15 21. 25.
0:18 Yeah, it's pretty fast.
0:42 Give me a chance to change
0:46 much. Mm.
0:59 Ok.
1:15 That sounds good.
1:28 That's great.
2:43 It's gone back.
3:59 Yeah,
4:03 let's go.
4:57 Yeah, it's pretty fast. Come back here when it's more than one word.
7:41 Ok.
7:42 I go to
8:04 you cast.
17:08 Ok.
21:33 Mm.
22:14 That,
22:54 excuse me, they're artists from Kansas City, Missouri are the ones that put together the signs out along the highway. So we'll visit with them. How's that sounding? Ok. How's your background? Tolerable? It is. You're definitely overpowering it. Ok. Good. Let's go. All right.
23:15 It's a really good product
23:19 this like
23:21 Taco. Why you take that?
23:29 Should we just have them kind of talking with each other and trade the microphone back and forth. We want it like here
23:39 at least maybe a little bit closer like this.
23:45 Um, you got a two shot here or a three right now right now. I got a three shot. Ok. Um, are you rolling? Ok. That's good. Ok. We're here with Matt Dega if I pronounced that right. Matt Deers and Karen mccoy, they're artists from Kansas City, Missouri and we just found one of their art projects out on County road B I think it is on our way to quarter to. So
24:09 tell me a little bit about the project. Uh If you can talk to me about the inspiration for this particular one. Well, it was a couple of months in the making and we went through a variety of ideas and spaces um visiting a couple of different reservations, um speaking with people about how they want their voice to be represented. Ladies and gentlemen,
24:35 you can blame it on me. We got some dancers, we got, we got a phone call about down the road. So I told them they gonna be here 130. We're gonna have grand entry, 130 dancers. People give you a little extra time, but a lot of you had a hard time finding this place.
24:54 Six adult age would call these take off when I started living here for a while. You remember those nights?
25:02 What if anything did that have?
25:08 It's the way
25:18 we didn't know
25:20 and only about 10 days ago, listen to A P and I wrote the text.
25:41 We're gonna put this on hold for another half hour. So a big
25:46 running back and forth.
25:51 They have a beautiful new nature area here about working with the sound of the native American languages. It turned out that is an idea that
26:08 he would just tell me
26:11 that
26:16 their history. It is
26:19 just a story. They need to have time to the elders that this would be an appropriate story this
26:29 to send out the invitation.
26:34 So we went back to the idea of
26:38 style. And when we heard, I heard a I began to understand
26:47 said there was a lot of, a lot of deep background going to visit with, with the Sha
26:54 with the
26:57 Peoria
26:58 we both had.
27:04 So it couldn't have
27:07 search and I might not have understood that what Alan and Bobby were saying, you know, I couldn't have edited. It said these are, these are crucial if I had, I had a lot of time to learn.
27:23 Have any of the people that inspired these, the exhibits.
27:29 Well, John White Analog, who's officiating here at the Pal on the Crossing Borders symposium panel said during the panel that he loved them that he thought they were provocative and very important. So that couldn't have made me more.
27:46 What else would you like to
27:51 general thoughts maybe about why? You know what we think of it? Yeah, let's maybe talk about some of the text or just I have my own sense of, you know, we've been talking about our own sense of how people that approach these or what, how we
28:08 Yeah, I'm just gonna hand off the microphone to them and let them freelance a little bit more. You have to kind of keep it here.
28:19 The, you've got to memorize, I take it the 25 signs. No, we'll probably have to prompt each other. No, here's the left me by writing.
28:30 But I think in general, uh one of the things when we were coming up with this idea that I was thinking about, we were thinking about is just the idea of how roadside signs catch people's attention. And no matter what you're focused in on while you're driving, you can't help but notice a sign and you can't help but react to it subconsciously at some level.
28:51 And so the idea that we put questions out there that are kind of open ended and make people think even if it's just for a second, think about what that means to them. And really you can take the questions either way, you can talk about them in terms of dominant culture,
29:10 in terms of the United States and the history behind that. But you can also talk about it in terms of the history of the American Indians and how it takes on both sides. So it makes you think about something that maybe you usually don't think about what kind of a recontextualization of culture. Yeah. And I also just want to emphasize how Matt and I have worked together bouncing off
29:36 them all the projects.
29:39 This project is definitely that same, right? Look at the text. The first one says, celebrate, commemorate now is a big question early on in the commemoration of the Melissa Clark. I Contin, who is celebrating, who is Commemorating? What do those things mean customer
29:59 the end and it's not a happy time or something to celebrate. So we wanted to bring
30:06 two people that are just coming to this event, two people that may not have been in on that discussion, but we certainly understand what those words mean. The next set. Who discovers who? That's also, that's a really interesting question. I mean, we're on land right now. That was once woo land. This wasn't just an empty space. A
30:28 question of language is culture, language is language, culture. Those are brought up. And as soon as you read that, and then you read, I think next is who names places and do place names, tell stories. And then you look up and you see the water tower at and you think what is British to sue me? That's a French name. It contains an Indian name. It's about a story.
30:53 This place is on a little spit of land between the Mississippi and the Missouri rivers. And it's a place where people portage their canoes a long time ago, Indian tribes, early white people, you cut off. I don't know 2235 miles. If you
31:10 um just thinking about all the things that we've learned about how history is recorded, how it's recorded in the landscape, how certain um John White Antelope was talking this morning about Devil's tower. It's a place in the landscape that tells a story that means something. It's a, it's a way of recording history.
31:32 So we ask in the sign boards, um, oral traditions, written traditions. How many ways can history be recorded? Um, and, and so we want people to start to honor other traditions other than our own
31:52 as well as kind of. One of the other things that seems to still be a factor in today's world is the issue of land, land ownership. And one man's wilderness is another one's wilderness is another's backyard. And the idea that American Indians think of themselves as stewards of the land and land is owned communally. It's,
32:14 it's not necessarily theirs to own it. It's something that they respect and reverent toward in terms of nature. And our concept of land, of course, is different. The Jeffersonian grid and the idea that land gets broken down and everybody has their portion. So two different perspectives. Which one's more valid than the other. Are they both valid? Those are some of the questions that we hope people might
32:39 think about even if it's just for a minute or two.
32:45 OK. Thank you. Thank you. Share with us folks. He's going to read these signs for us.
32:57 Can I, can I get the microphone?
33:03 Um Can we,
33:07 can we do this? I want to do it without the microphone. And the photo is there any way to this direction? The line go out sideways and I could have him hold that. I don't have to clip on. I can go pretty close from here.
33:20 We can do it that way.
33:23 I have a question. May I type as well? Can you? I mean, let's be close here. Just start reading, just start reading things and we'll move the mic as she needs. If you want to just stand with your sign here and you can have the mic there and I'll still get her in the close up. I'm sorry,
33:42 celebrate, commemorate
33:46 who discovered
33:49 one's will in it, another's backyard. What is wilderness? What is civilization is culture, language is the language, culture. Who names places? Do place names tell stories. How many ways can history be recorded? Written traditions,
34:13 oral tradition is everything you read. True. OK. Let's do it again.
34:24 I have to hold the microphone up
34:27 that far away.
34:31 And this one do it. Looking at the in between. I think that should be able to get them. Remember the question mark thing. Slow it down in between. Yeah, you can slow down the pace and more time between signs. OK.
34:51 Celebrate. That's a question. We started over here. OK. Celebrate, celebrate close enough. It's a question.
35:00 Celebrate. I don't know, celebrate,
35:05 commemorate who discovered whom is one's wilderness, another's backyard. What is wilderness? What is civilization, his culture, language, his language, culture. Who names
35:29 places the place name, tell stories. How many ways can history be recorded? Written traditions? Oral tradition is everything you read. True. OK. Um Do you want to do one? I'm looking at the camera now getting any familiar with them a little bit. You know what we'll do.
35:56 If you lose one, I'll just repeat it to you and you just feed it back into the camera. OK.
36:03 When you're ready, why don't you just say them and then you see them and then I'll reveal. OK. Celebrate, celebrate, commemorate, commemorate who, who discovered, discovered whom who is one's wilderness is one's wilderness, another's backyard, another's backyard.
36:28 What is, what is wilderness? Wilderness? What is, what is civilization? Civilization is culture, language is culture, language, his language, culture, his language, culture. Who names, who names places? Places do, place names,
36:52 do place names, tell stories, tell stories. How many ways, how many ways can history can history be recorded, be recorded, written traditions, oral traditions, oral traditions is everything is everything you read, you read. True, true.
37:18 What do you think that's good. That's a good time. And that work? OK. Are you rolling?
37:28 Commemorate? Commemorate who discovered, discovered? Whom whom is one's wilderness is one's wilderness, another's backyard? Another's backyard. What is, what is wilderness? Wilderness? What is, what is civilization? Civilization
37:51 is culture, language is culture, language is language. Culture is language, culture. Who names, who names places,
38:03 who place names do place names, tell stories, tell stories. How many ways, how many ways can history can history be recorded, be recorded, written traditions, written traditions, oral traditions, oral traditions is everything is everything you read, you read room.
38:31 Oh, I like them.
38:34 Ok. My name is Jeff Olson. I'm the Public Information Officer for the Lewis and Clark National Historic Trail and this is Clint Brown. He's a gro on Indian from Harlem Montana. And we've been out in Portage de Sioux, Missouri for the past couple of days for the signature event here and on our way up yesterday, we drove by some signs that we saw on the side of the road
38:59 and it's an art project, bicentennial art project and the artists are Matt De Hammers and Karen mccoy, both of Kansas City, Missouri.
39:09 I was just struck by the, by the signs and by the, by the words on the signs, there are things that I've been thinking about in the last four or five years because of the bison and I know that, you know, you and I have had conversations about what, what kind of a message are we going to work on? What kind of a message are we going to try and carry? That's, it's not about Lewis and th it's not just about science or discovery or things like that. What,
39:34 what did you, what was your first thought when, when you saw those signs yesterday, when I've seen all the signs along the road, there's one that stuck out in particular and it's still in my mind. And the question was who discovered whom? To me? I believe that uh that is the thing that we are celebrating as Native Americans or Commemorating, I should put it. We, as Native Americans have been here for years and years and years.
39:58 Uh The idea of Lewis and Clark coming through our homeland is something that I should, I think should be discussing,
40:06 you know, and we've also talked about celebrate, commemorate in those two years, those two words and, and what do they mean? And what words should they be used that you and I have talked about those wars before and we both slipped, we both had to celebrate. But I have a, a, you know, I think commemorate is the, is the appropriate term. But there are still some things to celebrate no matter who you are.
40:32 What is there for the gro bonds or for you and your family to celebrate in this place of. Well, I believe the celebration part of, of the, the Lewis and Clark Trail is that it is our turn as Native Americans to tell our story this time around we as Native Americans will have a chance to tell our story as opposed to what we've all heard or read, maybe in the his
40:56 out of the history book, uh which I'm sure the majority of that has been written by non, non native. You've probably done all 15 or 20 programs in many voice. You so far since the bicentennial,
41:11 where are people with wanting to know about the American Indian? That's a really good question. Uh When I first started the uh, presentations in the 10 of many voices. I had no idea what to expect. After the first one, I realized that people in the United States who lived side by side, native Americans know very, very little about it.
41:35 Why do you think that's? So, I believe that we've all kind of been trained to believe what we have in our history books as elementary students going to school. Even on the reservations, we got a very, very small part of the Native Americans during the Lewis and Clark trip. When in fact, if it wasn't for the Native Americans, I don't believe the Lewis and Clark would have made it as far as
42:01 can you think of a specific instance? I know you've read the journals and you've been to a lot of other Lewison Park presentations. Tell me a couple of instances where you think American Indian health was critical, could have been a watershed or
42:18 well, right off the bat as far as the Lewis and Clark group that traveled north, traveled West. Their group was a military group. I'm sure that turned off a lot of native Americans that they ran into. But one of the plus things that for the Lewis and Clark group itself, for the co two was having a female aboard and York to the Native Americans, York,
42:42 the color of his skin represented a God to the Native Americans. I truly believe that a lot of Native Americans that they encountered or they might not have encountered who watched them travel by on the river and let them go because of that female. And yours. I was just going to ask you what does a female and a small child mean
43:03 a female and a small child would represent that they weren't a hunting party, they weren't a war party. The female and a child would represent that these travelers were traveling as a family. I,
43:16 what else? What else struck us in this, uh, struck you in these, uh,
43:23 I like this one now
43:26 is one's wilderness and not in his backyard. There were two signs, um, pretty early on in the, in the, uh,
43:37 installment installation, Karen help me installation. There were two signs that popped into my head pretty quickly when we saw him in that installation out on the highway. There. One of the signs said that is one's wilderness and the next sign said another's backyard. So the question is, is one's wilderness, another's backyard. What, what does that mean? Oh, that, to me
44:01 means that when the Lewis and Clark trail, when they left west, when the co two left west from here and started into what they thought was a wilderness when, in fact, they were traveling into a very, very, uh, lived in land. Uh, the, there was a umpteen amount of people that they never ever seen. They simply traveled along the waterways when in fact, the land was inhabited by many people.
44:28 Is there? So, so we're talking that, uh, civilization is civilization and civilization, even if another group of people say it's wilderness. How about wilderness out in the, on the western plains? Was it all civilized land that where people lived or are there, were there places or are there places in the west that
44:51 tribes still consider to be wilderness? Yes, there is the tribes that were in the area specifically in the northern plains and along the Rockies, the tribes that lived in that area were simply hunters and gatherers and they moved about the countryside throughout the year to find the best spots, for instance, maybe to pick berries or to hunt meat or find wood for the winter. So there was parts of the wilderness
45:14 where even the native Americans basically left alone as soon as the, uh, the co two came through and the, the n or the, uh, the white people moved west, all of those wild wildernesses were soon gobbled up by people looking for beautiful places to live beautiful homes. When in fact, the native American people, they too believe those as beautiful places, but they
45:36 respected them so much that they would not venture into them as much as maybe the white people did. After the, uh, 42, you, you talk about the respect that, uh, Indians had for these places.
45:50 That's a, that's a word with a lot of different meanings. But what, what did respect mean, in, in that instance where there's a place out there that we respect and we're not gonna go there. Why, I guess why?
46:04 Well, there could have been several different reasons. One of the reasons that, uh, right off the top of my head would have been, it might have been a, uh, cremony grounds. There might have been certain, certain types of uh resources that the native American people might have gotten from that certain area and they, and then would respect that area for what Mother Earth had to offer there.
46:26 Uh Just besides the idea of ceremonial of burial grounds, but there was a lot of things that the native American people used for Mother Earth and those areas to them were, they were, they were sacred areas. I take it though, that's sacred. Doesn't mean that you, that they never went there. There were, there were uses what, what uh for brief periods of time or how was yours?
46:47 There would be more than one tribe who would venture to one certain area of the uh uh for instance, wilderness, there would be certain different tribes who would travel all to the same place, maybe to get one piece of pipe stone. And I'm talking several different tribes, warring tribes. There might have been certain areas where they would go to get certain shells, certain types of clay.
47:12 How would, how would warring tribes deal with going to the same place without warring on one another or did those things happen? The respect for the resources that Mother Earth had to offer would be put in front of all of the war. The warring thoughts that maybe the young warriors would have their, their elders would have taught them to respect
47:36 no matter who was there that Mother Earth let us use these resources, whether there was your warring tribe there or an allied tribe, they would respect it so much as to let them finish what they were doing and then move in.
47:51 Is there any other issues you wanna comment on or
47:57 how many ways can history be recorded? Oh, OK.
48:02 Let's see. Let's, let's go into this. Uh Why did you lead into this? Uh OK.
48:10 All right. Um How many ways can history be recorded? Uh When I first started out here on the uh uh 10th of many voices as a presenter, one of the things that I was told by the uh the Indian liaison with the National Park Service was to look for misconceptions within the Lewis and Clark Journal. Well, I sat down and I, I thumb through the journals again and uh
48:35 within the uh maybe the first three pages of the journals, I found several misconceptions. Um I always ask the idea how many ways can it be reported? How many ways can the native American people let the non native crowd know about our way of life? I believe this is one of the the the
48:57 stepping tools right here that with the trail of Lewis and Clark that the native Americans need to use. It is our chance to tell them about our history.
49:54 Yeah,
51:15 that I I'm so I was like, yeah,
51:21 all right, dancers last call, start making your way to the east side of the arena. Dancers start making yours yourselves over on the east side of the arena. This time, start lining up,
51:37 you stop care. We need you up front
51:43 and stop in there. Once again, registration is now closed. Registration is now closed. Getting ready for grand entry. You must make three of three grand entries,
51:59 right?
52:00 All you dancers are making your way over there. Start lining up.
52:06 She was
52:11 uh
52:14 OK.
52:16 And
52:21 the party
52:25 when we get a high sign from my arena director, we go to that C drum for grand entry song. We're coming back over to Milwaukee Bucks flag song. Then out to that center drum for memorial song,
52:41 you know to Waza Chief or
52:45 boom back to the Hoe Bucks victory song. Back to the Bucks.
52:54 OK. Photography. OK. For one
53:00 line up.
53:02 All right, dancer, this is it. We're going grand entry at this time. Everybody. I'd like you to please stand up all you participants, the respect for these uh eagle staff and the flag coming in at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, please remain standing if you are able to until this is over with. This is a proper protocol that we do out of respect for the United States flag and our eagle staff.
53:27 So yeah, I tell you to sit down. Please remain standing.
53:35 Give me a high sign. All right, Max. Are you ready? Grand entry song, gentlemen, remove your hats.
53:43 That's your cat, an eagle feather on it.
53:46 You
54:35 bring in that eagle staff this time. And Logan No,
54:43 Ed,
54:46 that Paul Princess is our visiting royalty. Mary Powell
54:54 is our head man and head lady dancer bringing in the dancers at this time
55:02 of that.
55:45 Just I
55:48 time our two bustle nets here our men next
56:18 at this time. Dancer f dancers, traditional mid dancers
56:30 all win
57:11 great.
57:15 My name's Jingle. I would be like but
57:21 or a junior category
57:24 man
57:32 category
58:04 girls.
58:08 Sha
58:26 Alright. You remain standing. Ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna have our flag on. This is the same as I'm sorry to clap too. It's the same as a national anthem for Indian people. If you were a standing at this time, send over to the Milwaukee Bucks.
59:16 Oh,
59:24 wait,
59:29 fun.
59:45 Um
59:47 Yeah.
1:00:06 Right. Ah
1:00:10 Wait. Oh
1:00:22 oh
1:00:27 A IA I
1:00:30 II I
1:00:34 oh
1:00:38 at this time and gentlemen, you come up here and post those colors for me.
1:01:02 Um
1:01:14 All right, we're gonna go to Memorial Song. Please stay tonight this time. Memorial song. Go to that center drum.
1:01:46 Ah
1:02:10 I

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