Closed Captions Audio Described

Pete John (Charging Eagle) recounts his rodeo career from 1950s high school championships through professional finals, including his role developing Indian rodeo associations. Tom Fredericks discusses the Fort Berthold Livestock Association's successful ranching programs and the devastating impact of the Garrison Dam on Mandan, Hidatsa, and Arikara communities, including the loss of river bottomlands and subsequent economic collapse.

Transcript

0:02 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the core Discovery too. And the 10 of mini voices and true to its name. The 10 of mini voices lends itself to allow a lot of different presenters to come in and present different aspects of the Lewis and Clark expedition and things that have happened since the Lewis and Clark expedition. So this is the bicentennial commemoration 200 years since Lewis and
0:25 Clark and the members of the expedition passed through here. And so every hour we have a different presenter. And this afternoon we have Pete John and Tom Fredericks. So I'm gonna let them identify who they are. So Pete raised your hand, John Adrian and Tom. There you go. And they are manda and heats.
0:48 They're gonna speak with us this afternoon about horses, cowboys and Indians. And just to give you some affiliation on the end down here, these are ranchers from Twin Buttes and this gentleman right here keeps them out of trouble. He's an attorney from Colorado. So please welcome the Frederick Brothers and their presentation.
1:13 Thank you. Uh No, she left one out. Uh We're uh members of three affiliated tribes. It's Mandan and Riro. My mother was raised by the Ricks and she's, uh, we're actually our Mandan. Hia. But we were raised by, my mom, was raised by the Rick. So we claim them to,
1:36 um,
1:39 our theme is, uh, cowboys, Indians and rodeo. And mine is, uh, I'm gonna do one on Indian rodeo. So I'm, I'm an Indian and I'm, I've been rodeo and I rode it all my life. So I'm gonna talk about that, talk about kind of myself. I don't want, I don't believe to be any, be better than anybody else, but
2:02 God give me a gift in the rodeo. And so, I mean, it sounds like I'm bragging but I'm not, I'm just telling you how it is. That's the way it was. And
2:15 my, I'm, I'm a member of three affiliated tribes like I told you. But I also have an Indian name and my name is my Indian name is Charging Eagle. I get that name to, to my Mandan culture. It's, uh, my grandfather's name was uh Charlie Grant. Charlie, excuse me, Charlie Burr.
2:40 And he was, uh, charge an evil with a brother to,
2:47 to forebears, one of our Indian chiefs anyway, to make it get along with the story. I, I started rodeoing with, uh, with the kids on, in round Elm woods back in the early days in the fifties. And I, uh, we went, we used to go to little rodeos around the reservation there at different places like the Chase had a had arena and,
3:12 and up in, uh, and that
3:18 Joe Charge and had an arena. We had about four arenas on the reservation and we would go to each one of those on the practice at back early April. And that's kind of how I got my start. And in 1953
3:34 my, my cousin, Billy Hall Junior and Sy Thorn senior and Angus Fox qualified for the National high school rodeo out of BEA.
3:47 And we went to, to be, um, and, uh, I won the saddle bronc grading and, uh, and Angus won the bareback riding and, uh, they won the bull riding. So we got to enter the, the National high school rodeo and which was held in Rapid City South Dakota in 1953.
4:08 In 1953 we had to send our applications down to the, uh, the rodeo secretary at the National High School rodeo in, in Rapid City. So as the, uh, Billy where, uh, from the woods, they lived there in woods and I lived up by twin views. I rode a bus to school. See. So,
4:31 so I sent my, uh, application in, from Halliday from the bank there in Halliday. And they, they sent theirs and we had to get our, our, our, uh, applications notarized. And when we got down to the rodeo, we drove, we drove all the way down there in 53 and all it was, was gravel roads all the way. And we got down there and, and sly and, and Jake weren't even entered, they threw their entry out because they weren't notarized.
4:56 And I was the only one that left, they left in it. But I had me in a bull riding instead of saddle Bronc riding. So, hello? I was there back Saturday, you know, and I, uh, went back and checked the bulb right away and they were sure enough big bulls, you know. And I, like, I was a freshman in high school, so I was pretty worried about that.
5:19 I tried to get out of it and they said, no, we, we take you out of the, see, my specialty was bare back anyway, but they had me in that one, my other event was saddle wrong, but they didn't have me. Now, they had me bull riding. So I, I pleaded with them and try to get them to take me out. They wouldn't do it. They did you, if you take you out of one, you're out of it completely. They said so I stayed in and I got on my first bareback horse there at the
5:45 Nationals. And, uh, we only got one because there were so many contestants from all over the country in the United States and Canada. And, uh, and so Jake Billy Hall Junior and SB Thorne Senior, they helped me down on my horse and when I got down on my horse, I was, I was pretty nervous because the horse they told me was wrong to help, to shoot, help. And the producer said that horse had never ridden before.
6:10 I don't, I didn't know what they were trying to scare me or just so I was pretty worried. He was sure enough, he's a shoot fighter and he called on the front of the shoot, you know, and I, and of course SD he got right up there and he, and I uh I never could hear my uh Spurge jingling. So scared I was and, and luck would have when the horse jumped out of there, he was,
6:35 I don't know, the Lord must have been on my side that day. I made a good ride and I went to the lead in the bareback riding and held the lead all the way through and won the National High School Bear back riding championship. And I was pretty happy and the three of us, we pulled our money and went to Custer South Dakota. We thought we needed some money to get back on. We just had enough entries to enter or either go back home.
6:58 So we wanted to ride these other, my cousins and my uh my best friend there. He was with my, uh he was engaged to uh my first cousin Audrey Hall. So, so we all were together, you know, we went over to the customer and sure enough, he got into the saddle, Bronc and bareback.
7:19 And I entered the bareback and saddle Bronc and Jake, one rode bareback that entered bareback and, and we, we didn't have very good horses in Sdn I and, uh, and sure enough, Jake one second, the Bear record and then there was only one header there too. So, so he had enough money to get us home.
7:40 So we, we came back home, Jay called, yeah, you Jake called the name. And then, uh then I went, we went to uh another one in high school. I went to the National high school rodeo in and when I was a senior year, the f in 54 it was too far away. It was way down in Texas somewhere. So I didn't even bother to go. But I did go to the one in uh Nebraska
8:04 wasn't too far away. So at 55 I went to it and uh I think it's qualified for it too. Yes. His brother Angus and uh we got down there and sure enough, we had a pretty good team together. The North Dakota team. There was a Don Rain from Hebrew and I had a horse that I pulled down there. And uh,
8:29 before I went, my, uh my old, my old horse trailer was so beat up. I look pretty shabby. So my sister and my mother, they fixed it up and my mom made me a good shirt, but she had to put the uh, the buttons on the wrong side, but that didn't make any difference.
8:48 We got down there and, uh,
8:51 OK.
8:53 And, uh, we were entered in the right events. We made sure everything was right. This time, around 55 in a came to the last horse and I had a bare back and a saddle bronc and I was in the steer wrestling and I pulled this, pulled my horse down there. I got from my brother Buzz and I split, split that horse. We, we bought him out of New Mexico. My brother was in, uh,
9:18 Ross Cruz is going to school down there working on his degree. And so I ha I pulled him down there with dad's car and I remember I drove halfway down there and I got tired. So I just pulled into some farmyard, somebody's farm along the road. It pretty close. But, but close to the trees. And so I let my horse eat. I had a little hay long for him and I slept in the back of the car.
9:42 I was by myself too. And then I got up the next morning, drove on into Harrison, Nebraska. Then we got to the rodeo there where I was like I was saying, I was in the bareback and saddle Bronx. I wrote my bare back and, and I run my, run my steer and then, and then in the, in the end, we were, uh, neck and neck for the all around. It was my, one of my teammates, saddle
10:08 Bron. Angus Klotz was right behind me. It was between me and him for the all around. Of course, we all wanted to win the all round because they give a big horse straight away, you know, and all the prizes in the, all around. And so I, uh, I come out, uh, third in the bareback and third in the steer wrestling and Don Rain won the
10:30 steer wrestling with a five flat. I was 53 and then somebody moved me down to 3rd, 52, but he won the steer wrestling and I won the saddle bronc riding and I also won third in a bareback riding. So that gave me the all around. So I did get the trailer. So I just left my old funny horse trailer sitting though. It blew up in a new new horse trailer and brought him home
10:56 and uh, we got home and then, uh that following winter, uh 1955 we had, uh an old guy, uh,
11:06 back in the old days, they had a, uh, a little, uh, little, little paper there, twin views that they call it. Uh, us sr and the, and the editor was John Starr senior and he seen all our publicity that we were getting. See, I not, I not only won that but my, my, my first cousin Joe Chase
11:29 was also in college down in Texas and Oklahoma. And he won the saddle Bronc riding in 52 and 53. So we were getting all that publicity. So he dubbed that the home of the champions. The Twin Butte is known as home of the champions that we had three national championships. No, five national championships between the two of us. We had two in Saddle Bronc and I had,
11:54 I had a bareback title in 53 and, uh, all around and 55 in the Saddle Bronc. So we had five national championships. So we, it was, it was deed, uh, home of the champions after that. So they got to sign on and BC ever go there. Well, they'll see that anyway. They went through that and then I went into college and I had a pretty fair career in college. Now, I
12:16 got to hurry along now because I get my brothers here, got, they get 15 minutes already, 20 minutes, 20 minutes and even got out of college yet.
12:29 Well, to make AAA long story short, my mom told me she said, whenever you do something good, son and my dad said the same thing they would do together and they said when you do something good, you will give it back to whomever you're, you got it from, try to give something back. So I went to college and I was doing pretty good in college.
12:52 So I transferred up to Dickinson and I thought, well, I, we don't have a, a Dickinson College rodeo team. So I brought my articles and corporation from, uh, from down to Mexico where my brother was. I went with him in the first year. So my second year, I went to 1958 I went to Dickinson State Teachers College and I organized the rodeo team there. And so I,
13:16 I was doing what my mom said to do and I was also helping myself to be close to home in Rodeo in college. And I ended up having a pretty fair. I never did win a world champions, a national championship in college, but I was a runner up in 5857 to the all around. And then to, to a, I graduated out of the college ranks and,
13:41 and went into NFR National finals, rodeo of the professional Rodeo Association. They made us all, you know, if you got so far along rodeo where you had to give by a card and that was kind of the rule of thumb if you, they would let you into the rodeos and that you had a UR a card and you had your own own association. So we, so I went to, then I through the NFR, I, uh,
14:07 they go by the top 15 to go to the finals. So they keep track of your points. They got a point system, Colorado Springs, I suppose most of, you know how that works anyway. Uh, I got, I qualified in two events. In 61. I actually didn't qualify in the saddle Bron in, uh, 61. But I didn't want to make, actually make two events because they, we knew, I knew that they had the,
14:30 all this rank stock down there and they, and I found out that we had to get, get on two head a day on the weekend and it was just over five days. Of course. Now they got all stressed over 10 days. But then, then I went ahead and wrote in that and I was, uh, I, I was ranked, uh
14:53 eighth going in, in the bareback riding. And when I came out of the finals in Dallas, Texas in 1961 I was ranked fourth. I ended up force for the world got beat out by 1500 no, 3500 points. Each daughter accounts for a $0.3500.
15:15 Uh, during the past summer of 61 I had a horse stop on, on me at Cheyenne in the finals and one that stopped on me at Salinas and that, that particular year, they wouldn't give you any rewrites under any circumstances. So I lost out on that. That probably cost me maybe, you know, a championship. Anyway, I went through to the professional rodeo and then I
15:39 went into Indian rodeo after that, I was kind of through with that. So I went back into the Indian, uh, and, and while I was in my professional career I went to a rodeo Indian rodeo in Gallup, New Mexico. And gosh, uh, I was really saddened by the way the Indians were treated, especially the rodeo guys. Now, they just weren't treated right. I didn't think so. I, I thought to myself, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick up this deal and
16:04 see if I can straighten it out. So I got for the right guys, I knew the guys that I rode in with that was only in the uh the, they were on the board of directors. So I, I got them to pass a ruling that they wouldn't, they could let the Indian rodeo be managed and helped with professionals pr C stock and officials. So that that
16:29 portion done and I went into the Indian rodeo stuff. We developed our, our, our, all our or organizations throughout the United States and Canada. And we have, I think, let's see, 13 associations and they're all for themselves, each one. But we take the top two of the national finals rodeo.
16:52 So we, we dubbed at the international final Rodeo and it exists today as our final version uh Saint Louis. You're in San Carlos, San Carlos Arizona at the San at the uh gold casino.
17:13 Golden Golden Globe Casino. Yeah, it's called uh the goal.
17:21 It's a gold casino of the uh
17:25 Arizona apaches there and, and uh in Arizona. Anyway. So it's on the 19th to the 23rd. If anybody wants to go the Rodeo mountain
17:38 with that. All that. Uh, I better end it. So my brothers don't kill me here. Thank you. Ok.
17:48 A,
17:51 uh,
17:53 jeez, bad ending.
17:58 Well, I guess I'm, I'm up next and, uh, I'll try to kind of hurry through this. Uh, so, uh, my grandma, let me get back on schedule here. Talk to speed. Took a lot of time. Well, no, uh,
18:18 I'm, I'm John Fredericks Junior and I'm a member of the three affiliated tribes here. I've grown up on the reservation and uh ranch all my life in the Twin Beths area and some, you know, west segment area.
18:37 And uh my Indian name was given to me by my grandfather, Pete Coffey. It's uh Euba, which means he said is best he could uh explain was the shin of the buffalo. Some people just call it ankle, you know. But anyway, that was, that was the engine name I got that came from my uh,
19:01 Uncle Wilfred Medicine Stone who was killed in an accident. World War Two. So I kind of cherish the name because of that.
19:13 When I was about 14 years old, I was on what we call the big lease round up north west of mcgregor camp. The big lease was leased and run by a few large non engine ranchers and was separated from the engine operators by a drift fence that had four wires. They went north and south just west of my uncle Jim Hall's ranch and on north by Spring Butts and over into the Independence country.
19:38 Now that I've sort of located us, I was repping for my dad, John Frederick, senior with my sister Benin. About this time, Albert Woods was having a fair and rodeo at the old fairgrounds that was located about one mile south of Albert Woods. So I told my sister that I would take the cattle. We picked up my dad's and picked them by the ranch.
20:03 She would stay and finish the round up and end up at Ag Kennedy's. She, she knew Kennedy family real well. Could, could depend on them to take her horse, uh, back home or wherever she wanted, she would stay and finish. Um, as I was, wanted to go to the fair and enter the rodeo. So I headed east
20:27 beating my horses and pushing the cows ahead past mcgregor camp and down moccasin to my uncle Jim Hall's camp and find to my dad's ranch.
20:38 My dad was pleased with my performance. So when I asked him if I go to the fair, he said, go to go ahead. I changed horses and headed for the fair about 20 mile, 21 miles east. I got in a bareback riding. I recall the horse was wild and nervous as I was, I called for the horse and when they opened the gate,
21:01 I was really going to make a showing for myself. I spread at the horse's neck while he was still in the chute and the horse ducked under my leg. Lucky for me, he gave me a time to regroup and get my leg back on the side of his neck so I could spur him out as he left the chute. It didn't do much good. However, because a few jumps out of there,
21:24 he left me hanging in the air and then to that good old sandy loam that flourished in our river bottoms as I drug myself out of the dirt and brushed my jeans off. I could hear the band playing, sort of made me feel better. I had my first band back course behind me and the band was playing, even though I bucked off a
21:48 good part of it was, I had a couple of uncles playing in the band, Charles Huber senior and Arthur Mandan along with Floyd Montclair and others. The important thing we had, uh at the fair that we had a, a place for the band and we had our own band that, that played the music. Uh And they done a good job.
22:13 These early events, I just spoke about set the pace for me as a cowboy and professional rodeo as well as ranch cowboy. When being a cowboy really meant something to those of us that were in it because being a ranching cowboy meant you had to get up at daylight, get on while snorty horses on those cold fall m mornings even if they buck, you were expected to take them
22:38 all out of, uh, taken all out of them. By the time you rode in to camp that evening, put up pay all summer with horses until the first snowfall. Then ride on roundups. Even if it meant freezing your face to get your cattle together, so you could feed them the hay you put up during the summer. Now, I want to talk about
23:02 our own early day ranchers and why ranching was so successful on the fort be Ole Indian reservation.
23:10 The year of 1934 our tribe adopted and accept the Reorganization act which provided for a constitution that included a corporate structure or the ability to set up a corporation. Most of our Indian men, folks were warriors that were used to hunting buffle that were in abundance during that time, prior to that time, to provide a total living for their families and rode
23:35 good horses to protect their families against the enemy tribes that they fought in the early days. So the lifestyle of being a rancher and raising cattle with horses to do the work with our Indian men who took to this new life. They elected a tribal council to run the government of the tribe and they got busy working with the Bureau of Indian Affairs
23:59 together. They secured a federal charter to do business on the Port Beal Indian reservation. The three tribes involved to uh
24:12 were the three tribes that we that now are part of this reservation, the man that his a so a rick her off
24:22 together, they talked the Bureau of Indian Affairs and providing them with an agent to work with them in developing and using their resources. Thus, the Fort Bertel Livestock Association was born after sending a board of directors and getting their agent on board. They met with all the families of the reservation and decided with the assistance of their new agent just how they were going to run things.
24:48 At this point. In our times, we we sort of had a three branch government. The Bureau of Indian Affairs provided a law and order. The council was our executive branch and our association with this was the Congress so to speak. Anyway, it worked real well for us at the time. Working together, our people established the following system through the use of their corporation.
25:12 They set up a repayment program. Any male or female over the age of 18 could secure cattle in 10 head increments provided they had a cap and pay for the cattle, I believe early on, it was capped at 50 head back in those days. That was pretty good. That was a pretty good bunch of cattle. Many of our better ranchers increased their herds to 100 better.
25:37 Some contracted with large meat companies and ran yearlys in larger numbers. The best mother cow were purchased originally from this program and with good bulls. Our Indian ranches became noted for good cattle, 32 people and even bought bull from them. Then we set up a bow program. The board of direct
25:59 the the board and the agents purchased some very good bows for their operators which developed into some outstanding cow herds on the res reservation. The association purchased the bulls that kept them and fed them until it was time to put them out with the cows. So much per head was charged for the use of the bulls.
26:19 No money changed hands. The Indian cattle had a big ID ran on the shoulder. Therefore, since they were considered government property, nobody bothered them. The board and the agent also purchased supplemental feed and sold large increments for a cheaper price. All this was kept at the Elm Woods Agency headquarters.
26:42 A flour and feed mill was also set up whereby the operators could bring in their wheat and and get it processed. So they would have flour for foodstuffs and ran for their calves. The Indian operators never paid cash for any of the above production cost. A record was kept at the headquarters office and when they sold their calves,
27:06 you brought your proceeds in and your your yearly expenses were deducted and the balance was given back to the operator.
27:16 The association members also set up a small loan program which provided for Indian family needs for out of the pocket expenses during the year from one fall to the next. The loan was paid off the same way that other operating expenses were paid when each operator sold his cattle in the fall, some operators sold locally
27:37 and some shipped to other central markets like Fargo, North Dakota, South Saint Paul Minnesota and to Chicago, Illinois, I may have missed one or two. But those were the main markets during those good process years for our livestock. People of a Fort Worth Indian reservation and I say good prosperous years because
28:01 at that time, that system provided uh a good life for all of our uh our people on the reservation and all the people participated in it. I don't think there was a family that didn't and they had uh pigs and chickens and other livestock, milk cows
28:22 to provide uh uh food stuff for the, for the family. And I don't wanna, I'm talking about ranching, but I don't want to leave the women folks out. They worked very hard during those days, but they put it a big gardens and together with their family, kept them clean and, and uh can all summer long,
28:44 not only from, from the garden but also from the wild fruits and so forth. We had in the area of the low lands.
28:54 The associate members also set up a small loan program which provided, let's see, I think I covered that. Ok. Uh It had to be a good program because all the families participated. It provided a good life, taught our younger generation how to work and take on responsibility at an early age. Basically, during that time, we had no welfare. We had no drugs and very little alcoholism.
29:23 We were living the good life off the resources our great spirit provided for us. We were happy, we loved each other and help one another. We ruled many miles to worship our great spirit and give him thanks for fighting these things for us. Then came the pick Sloan era. The dam was built at big city and back water up the big little Missouri rivers,
29:46 our timber was gone. Our feed base, our water holes, our protection and our Indian rats has left their heart and soul to wither and die with all the resources and animals that the water from the dam destroyed.
30:02 Some other ranchers tried to ranch on the upper bench lands. They were forced to relocate to due to the garrison dam, but we're not very successful in the, in the process. We lost our credit program but fa and, and FH A took over. We're now in court with the FH A trying to keep our land together.
30:26 We lost our repayment program and our funds were generated from the bull program. Superintendent Morgan gave the tribal Business Council without our authority, but most of all, we lost a great livelihood. Thank you.
30:50 You know, I I'm the youngest of the, of the, of the family. And I just wanted to tell you that, you know, when I, when I grew up growing up doing chores was riding about two steers and maybe a colt. And if they didn't get me hurt by that, then they, but they'd put me on a bucking barrel and I'd ride that bucket barrel till they cut my head open or something. And that's, that's just, that was just like doing chores for me. Uh,
31:16 and then when they were rodeoing hard, we'd be, we'd be up there working. And I remember Pete going in fif in road gear when I was on the rake. And, uh, he wanted to get done with this field because he wanted to go to a rodeo in wolf point. And, uh, he was going so damn fast that the rake came off and it stuck in the ground and I just went flying in the air.
31:41 So I walked home. I told him, hell, I'm not riding no race for you.
31:46 And then, uh, one time we were rolling up hay and, uh, hay field buzz. He came home. I don't know if he come home from a rodeo or a dance, but Swede Holland was in the haystack and we were around there playing and how he went to sleep when he's pulling the hay up and he pulled the hay all over on top of the guy.
32:10 And one time Pete, he came for, we were all hand we were really doing good. We were just about done with the field and Pete, he come back, I guess he's feeling guilty because he had helping hand. He was rodeo and he came into the field about 10 minutes. He had the damn tractor on fire and he had, uh, stop burning. And my dad went over there and said, get the hell out of here.
32:32 He said, you're a cowboy, you're not a, you're not a man. He shouldn't be riding the tractor.
32:42 It was a lot of fun growing up on the ranch. Uh As my brother stated, uh we did a lot of work. Uh I did a lot of the hanging and I stayed home. Uh, my mother, I, I started rodeo and when I was, when I graduated from the eighth grade, I won the high school bareback ride and qualified for the nationals. Uh But my mother said she had enough cowboys.
33:05 She didn't want, she didn't want me to be a cowboy. And so I went to college and then, uh I went into sports and got a scholarship to play football. And then I went to law school and became a lawyer. Uh, mine at State, I graduated from law, an undergrad and I graduated from the University of Colorado law School and I never left Colorado
33:30 except to come home here. Uh, but I wanted to give you a little idea about what life was like. Uh, you know, I remember I was the youngest. So I was always the guy that was kinda taking care of things that, uh, like when we'd have a horse round up, you know, they, they start out over here in the what buzz called? The Big Lease. They were wild horses.
33:53 And so they start them around across the river and they'd come up on the top of, by Pete's Place there at the end of the road in Twin Buttes, we were taking them to my dad's ranch and these horses were wild and, and, uh, and our horses, their horses be about played out by the time they get up on top of that coming out of tunnel point and down there on the, what was that, uh, Martel bottom and,
34:18 and they'd come out of the, they'd come out of the brakes up on a divide there. And so I'd, I'd be standing there holding a bunch of horses. I'd have a truckload of horses unloaded and they'd take new horses. And I remember one time my cousin Wesley Hall, he was, he was coming up there, his horse was all played out. So he, he did, but I didn't have a horse for him. So he was just kind of playing around with me there.
34:42 I had the truck and I was gonna load the horses, but I thought, well, I'll jump on the back and take a ride with him. I got us both bucked off his horse. Had enough, enough going. So he bucked us off, but we took them horses all the way to my dad's place. Uh, wild horses. I remember that. One of the last round ups I think we had, uh, taking them horses into, uh, into the crowd.
35:07 They're up into civilization.
35:10 And, uh, the other thing I wanted to mention was, you know, I, I'm doing a lot of work on the Garrison Dam, uh, the taking and the uh the way the way the government looked at our life is they tried to buy an acre of land and say that the value, the value was whatever the market value was. They didn't look at the
35:33 value of the the actual way of life on Fort Berthold at the time of the taking in the 19 forties, 85% of the tribe lived along the river. We were river people, 85% and it and all the allotments were along the river. And so at the time of the taking and this is documented in our reports,
35:58 6% of the Indians were on welfare or, or some kind of public assistance. And they all had family like John said, they had family gardens, they had little cattle, everybody was self sufficient. And that was because, you know, we had wild plums, we had June berries, we had choke cherries. We had wild.
36:20 I know right by our place in the, on the little river uh where my where my folks live, we had a little patch. It was just like an orchard. You know, we had all those fruits in there and then we had wild grapes along the river. And if we wanted to get coal, we got on the ice and we'd go along the river until we found the coal seam that we wanted to. That my dad knew was pretty good coal. And we, that's where we got our coal
36:46 and uh, we got wood from the trees and our cattle grazed in the river bottoms. It, it'd be windy blowing and they'd be fine, you know, just like that. It was just like a shed for them. That those trees. I know the people would come to my dad's ranch on the little river and they'd say John, you got a paradise for cattle here. And it was, it was a very, it was a very nice ranch and I never realized what happened to my dad because
37:11 he got up to the, when they, when they flooded the uh Missouri, he went, he didn't really have his heart in ranching anymore. He was depressed. I didn't know he was depressed but I just wondered what was wrong with him. But now as I studied it, I understand,
37:29 but uh,
37:32 ranching then got much more difficult. But, and, and when the Army Corps of Engineers took our property, you know, they, the, the United States valued it uh as, as what you would sell a, a piece of property. They didn't value all these other things that were valued, the wild animals that we lived off, the game that we, the,
37:56 the subsistence that was provided by the, by the uh terrain and the, and the climate of, of being by the river. I got five minutes. You guys took all my time. Uh uh But anyway, uh what we're trying to do now is, you know, we, we've, we've progressed, you know,
38:17 we had a little guy that valued our property buzz, talked about the tribal council. We didn't have big experts. We didn't have lawyers like myself. We had, our people did the best they could and they negotiated a pretty good contract. They got power in there. They were, when after the taking, they could have, they were supposed to have a block of power.
38:39 But, and the, and the act said that the secretary and the, and the tribe would negotiate a contract and we did and they negotiated a pretty, and I have a copy of that contract, but it went to the Congress and Congress just wiped everything out and did whatever they wanted. And we ended up with, I think about 12 million. That's all on the powerpoint. But I don't have time to do my powerpoint
39:03 uh about $12 million. And, uh today we valued that and we used experts and we got the, the way it should be valued and there's two kind of two school of thoughts is how much can you earn from an acre of land by putting efforts into it? And then the other way is to value it on what, what it costs to live.
39:27 You know, if you lived off coal and wood, then you move up to the top and there's no wood, no coal, then you have to buy propane. So there's a consumer kind of aspect to it. What does it cost you now to live? It's a hell of a lot more to have uh elec electric heat and propane and that kind of stuff. So that really impacted our tribe.
39:50 And when we studied the, studied the tribe in 1992 when we passed the JTC law, uh 90 94% of our people were on some form of public assistance. So that ought to tell you the kind of impact that the Garrison Dam had on the, on the Fort Worth reservation.
40:10 So we went from 6% public assistance to 9 94% public public, some kind of public help. So we hired experts, we hired an economist out of New Mexico. We hired an economist out of uh that graduated from uh Cornell. And uh we valued these. Now, the uh the, the JTC uh
40:34 was a group that was appointed by the United States to represent the United States. And they, they found that we did not get just compensation for our bottom lands. So we studied it, remember they gave us $12,000 and so they studied it and they came up with a number of 100 and 82 million for the low side using the New Mexico
40:58 where you earn what you can earn from the land. And the, the Cornell economist who, who valued it as what you lost. How, how would it cost you to p for as a consumer? And also what all the, the wild animals, all everything you lost from, from a li a way of life. And that came up to 411 million.
41:21 While Congress said, you know, they, they said, well, we don't know if this is right. The, the secretary of the Interior disagreed with their, his own JTC committee that he had appointed and so he's, he sent it on to Congress and then Congress enacted a bill or they gave it to the GAO, the general accounting office to look at it. And they said, well, they've overstated their uh their amount. So
41:47 what, what, what we should do is remember the tribal council hired a little uh appraiser that probably from parcel or from garrison or mine or someplace that appraised the land down here and he came up with 20 about 22 million or 23 million. And so the GAO said, well, we think that's overstated.
42:10 They were willing to take 23 million back when, in 1949 when they had no money. They had nothing to hire an expert with. So let's just give them the difference between the 23 million that they said they were entitled to back in 47 and what we paid them. And then they took the, uh, corporate bond rate and, and present, valued it up to the present day
42:35 and that came to 100 and 49 million. And now, uh, they valued that they went to, to uh and there's a lot of this kind of going on. Now, the river, 23% of the land that was lost as, as a result of the P Stone Sloan program was ended land and there were eight dams on the re on the river.
42:58 And so there's eight tribes that were flooded out by and, and the reason for that is Congress, it was easy for the United States to take into the land because it was in the name of the United States. It was underdeveloped, they thought it was cheaper, but it had a crippling effect on the, on the, on the Indians. And now Senator mccain, he's saying uh you know, they, the, the they, they went to
43:23 Cheyenne River and Cheyenne River got a value that we all claim is the, is the right way to value the land, the value of what we lost as Indians. And that came to 290 million and they lost 100 and 4000 acres well, the economist that did that is Robert mclaughlin. And, and he's the, he's the guy that uh
43:46 valued standing rock and he valued the Cheyenne River while they can. Finally, Jo went along with Bob mclaughlin's uh economics. And so they uh they passed the JTC bill at, at Cheyenne River for 290 million. So that means that our, if we get parody with that at Fort Berthold,
44:11 we should get 411 million in back in 1992 which is gonna be a lot more today. We're thinking maybe a billion dollars. John mccain is saying, how come you guys keep coming back here? I mean, how, how many times you gonna get your head in the trough? He said at the last hearing? Well, we're, we're coming back because we're entitled to just compensation when you get,
44:35 when you get land taken for a public purpose and it's private land, you're supposed to be able to get just compensation. And, and so that's the argument that we're saying we didn't get just compensation your own people and, and Congress said we didn't get just compensation. They said that in their findings in the JTC law. So we've got a big fight going on and, and John is head of
44:59 a group, we call the upper Missouri River, uh a Latte Association which is, and, and when congress passed this 149 million 90% of the land that was lost was allotted land, meaning individual land and they gave the 149 million to the, to the tribe instead of to the, to the lat. So that's the fight we're at now we got.
45:23 And so we're, you know, we don't want to be fighting between the tribes. So we're saying to the tribe, you keep the 149 we're gonna go after the 411. So, uh well, that's kind of where we're at and I know our time is up. But I just wanted, I had a, a pictorial, I wanted to show you how we lived back when, but that'll be another day, I guess. Thank you.
45:49 Thank you all very much.
45:53 Well, they gave us a wealth of information and unfortunately, we don't have any time for questions, but hopefully, if you do have any questions for Tom Pete and John, they can answer them at the back of the Tom Be and here in about five minutes, we're gonna have Harry Beauchamp and Harry Beauchamp the third. Speaking about a CBO in culture and history. Thank you very much.

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Pete John and Tom Fredericks on Mandan rodeo and ranching

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Pete John and Tom Fredericks on Mandan rodeo and ranching

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